Level 3: indefinites [17] -quam

[1] Images #1 and #2: I got as far as negative polarity counterpart and downward entailment, two terms used in linguistics. Hats off to whoever researched that tsunami of information which is from Wiktionary because it is most likely accurate and will be of use to whoever wants to explore every word of a language in minutiae of detail. However, it well illustrates the point I made in the first post on this topic: it creates the impression that the little word quisquam is of monumental importance, that everything written there needs to be known, and (falsely) that even a single word is an uphill struggle. This aspect of the way in which Latin can be presented was also discussed here:

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/06/020724-level-2-is-ea-id-1-introduction.html

It’s an issue that can be particularly acute if, as I was, you are studying by yourself, because there is nobody to say to you “This part doesn’t matter, but this part does”. As a general rule, if you see pages and pages of information, ignore them (I did) and search for sources that present the key ideas.  

[2] As with all the other indefinites, focus on its basic meaning:

-quam: any-

quisquam: anyone; quidquam (quicquam): anything

[i] It functions as a pronoun and is most often found in negative sentences.

numquam edepol quisquam illam habēbit (Plautus) │ By Heavens, never will anybody have her

… nec posthāc quisquam damnābitur (Cicero) │… nor in the future will anybody be condemned

… neque tamen scit quisquam (Cicero) │ … nor does anybody know it, however

… neque mē tibi neque quemquam antepōnō (Cicero) │ … and I put neither myself nor anybody (else) above you

Nam neque edēs quicquam neque bibēs apud mē hīs decem diēbus! (Plautus) │ for you’ll neither eat nor drink anything in my house for the next ten days!

Here’s another welcoming comment from Plautus:

exspectātum eum salūtat magis haud quicquam quam canem │  She welcomes him about as warmly as she would a dog [ = not any more than …] (P.S. The image is of Agrippina; Plautus wasn’t talking about her, but I can imagine she’s the sort of person he has in mind!)

[ii] Keep in mind the concept of (not) … anybody although the Latin can often be reworked into English nobody:

… neque quisquam est vulnerātus (Nepos) │ … and nobody [ = and not anybody] was hurt

Domum suam istum nōn ferē quisquam vocābat (Cicero) │ Literally: almost not anybody invited him to his house > hardly anyone / almost nobody invited him to his house

Eam intrāre haud ferē quisquam praeter ducem ipsum audēbat (Livy) │ [literally: almost not anybody …] hardly anybody / almost nobody except the general himself dared to go into it

[iii] A number of examples from Plautus show the neuter of the pronoun being used with the adjective in the genitive case:

Dī mē perdant, sī ego tuī quicquam abstulī │ May I be damned, if I carried off anything of yours

Neque dīvīnī neque mī hūmānī posthāc quicquam accrēduas │ From now on don’t believe anything either divine or human from me

[iv] Note again in this example the genitive of the adjective:

ut nōn faciās nōbīs quicquam ¦ malī (Vulgate) │ that you will not do anything bad to us

Examples (all from the Vulgate):

nōn quia Patrem vīdit quisquam │ not that anybody has seen the Father

nōn poterat facere quicquam │ he could not do anything

Et nōn potuit respondēre eī quidquam, quia metuēbat illum │ And he could not say anything to him in reply, because he feared him.

et nōn admīsit quemquam sequī sē  │ and he did not allow anyone to follow him

nōn enim subtrahet persōnam cuiusquam Dominus … │ For the Lord will not show partiality to any man [ = literally: for the Lord will not take away the status of any (man / one)] …

 … nec reverēbitur magnitūdinem cuiusquam │ …nor will he revere any man's / one’s greatness

et surrēxī nocte ego et virī paucī mēcum et nōn indicāvī cuiquam quid Deus dedisset in corde meō │ and I got up at night, I and a few men with me, and I did not tell anybody what God had put in my heart

quōquam (adverb): (to) anywhere

Et dīxit Eliseus: Unde venīs, Giezī? Quī respondit: Nōn īvit servus tuus quōquam. │ And Eliseus said: Where are you coming from, Giezi? And he replied: “Your servant did not go anywhere.”

[3] I have given the table for the singular forms of quisquam, but were there plural forms? Again, information in note form from Wiktionary illustrates my point:

“Only attested in postclassical Latin. In Classical Latin, forms of ūllus were used instead. Only attested as a feminine form in the preclassical Latin of authors like Plautus. Attested only once in Classical Latin. Usually ūllam was used instead. Attested, but rare in Classical Latin. Usually ūllō was used instead.”

Whoever wrote this is covering every base, but, in the end, what it is saying is that plural forms of quisquam are so rare as to be neglible and it is certainly not worth poring over a grammatical table that lists them.

Exercise: complete the Latin quotations with the appropriate form of quisquam; apart from [iv], they are all from Plautus. The answers are at the end of the post.

[i] Hang it all, I haven’t taken nor touched anything │  nōn hercle equidem __________ sūmpsī nec tetigī

[ii] … nor did any one of us notice │ neque nostrum __________ sēnsimus

[iii] …and I can’t find anybody at his house or in the city who has seen him │ neque domī neque in urbe inveniō __________ quī illum vīderit 

[iv] … nor would they comply with anybody’s order │ neque __________ imperiō obtemperātūrōs (Caesar)

[v] She is not to pass the dice to any man apart from you │ tālōs nē __________ hominī admoveat nisi tibi

[vi] Please keep an eye on that one inside there, my lads, and don't let him set a foot out here anywhere without a guard │ servāte istum sultis* intus, servī, nē __________ pedem ecferat sine cūstōdēlā

*contraction of sī + vultis: if you want

cuiquam; cuiusquam; quemquam; quicquam; quisquam; quōquam

[i] nōn hercle equidem quicquam sūmpsī nec tetigī

[ii] neque nostrum quisquam sēnsimus

[iii] neque domī neque in urbe inveniō quemquam quī illum vīderit

[iv] neque cuiusquam imperiō obtemperātūrōs

[v] tālōs nē cuiquam hominī admoveat nisi tibi

[vi] nē quōquam pedem ecferat sine cūstōdēlā

Level 3: indefinites [16] -que

quisque: each one, every one

There is a slight difference depending on whether the indefinite is [1] a pronoun or [2] an adjective

[1] -que: prefixed to quis, quae, quid > quisque, quaeque, quidque (or quicque) (singular only)

prō sē quisque id quod quisque potest (Plautus) │ Each (man / one) according to his ability does that which each (man / one) can

in suō quidque locō repōnitō (Cato) │ each (thing) in its proper place

iam quidem ¦ in suō quicque locō ¦ nisi erit mihi situm supellectilis (Plautus) │ now in truth if things are not arranged exactly as they should be [ = literally: each (thing) in its own place ]

[2] -que: prefixed to quis, quae, quod > quisque, quaeque, quodque (singular); quīque [masc.], quaeque [fem. / neut.] (plural)

Suam quisque homō rem meminit (Plautus) │ Each man remembers his own affairs

quō maius quodque animal, eō rōbustior ex eō cibus est (Celsus) │ the larger the animal [each animal (is)] the stronger the food it yields

Notes:

[i] It is frequently used with ūnus; ūnus + quisque may be written together as a single word)

Respondet ūnus quisque ut erat praeceptum (Cicero) │ Each one answers as it had been instructed

[ii] With an ordinal number:

Necāvērunt mīlitem decimum quemque │ They killed every tenth soldier

Igitur tertiō quōque diē cibus aegrō … datur (Celsus) │ Therefore, on every third day (every three days) food is given to the patient

[iii] With a superlative:

complūrēsque ducēs ac fortissimus quisque interfectī vulnerātīque sunt (African War) │ and several of the enemy leaders and all their bravest men were either killed or wounded [ = literally: each bravest (man), but the implication is every one within a group considered the bravest]

Equōs dehinc fortissimō cuique bellātōrī trādit (Tacitus) │ Hence he gives horses to the bravest fighters [= literally: each bravest fighter i.e. each one within the group of bravest fighters]

[iv] Don’t forget one of the first words you will have seen in Latin, and which is not an indefinite: quoque (also)

The tables show all forms for reference, but simply bear in mind the concept of “each / every” expressed by -que even if translations vary and / or do not convey the idea specifically

Examples:

Itaque suō quisque ¦ hōrum locō sententiam rogātus … (Cicero) │ Accordingly as each (one) ¦ of them was asked an opinion …

Nunc enim tantum quisque laudat quantum sē posse spērat imitārī (Cicero) │ Nowadays everyone [i.e. each individual] praises only what he thinks he can imitate.

ūnum quemque cōnfirmāns, excitāns (Cicero) │ encouraging and cheering them one by one [= each one]

Decimum quemque mīlitem sorte ductum fustī percussit (Frontinus) │ He hit with a stick one of every ten soldiers [= each tenth soldier] taken out by lot

Pōnite ante oculōs ūnum quemque rēgum (Cicero) │ Set before your eyes each (one) of the kings.

Intereā ūnamquamque turmam manipulum cohortem temptābam quid facere possent (Cato) │ Meanwhile I was testing every single squadron, maniple, cohort, what they could do

sagittāriīsque ex omnibus nāvibus Ityrēīs, Syrīs et cuiusque generis ductīs in castra (African War) │ From all his ships he brought archers into camp — Ityreans, Syrians and men of diverse races [of each and every race] —

Sua cuique cīvitātī religiō, Laelī, est, nostra nōbīs (Cicero) │ Each city has its own religion, Laelius, we have ours [= literally: to each city there is …]

quid quisque eōrum ¦ dē quāque rē ¦ audierit … quaerant (Caesar) │ and they inquire what ¦ each of them ¦ may have heard … ¦ about each matter 

certē enim recentissima quaeque sunt corrēcta et ēmendāta maximē (Cicero) │ for certainly the most recent things are the most corrected and most amended [i.e. every one of the most recent things]

The dental hygiene of the Celtiberians …

Nunc Celtibēr es: Celtibēriā in terrā,

quod quisque mīnxit, hōc sibī solet māne

dentem atque russam dēfricāre gingīvam

(Catullus 39)

Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,

whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomed

in the morning to rub his teeth and his red gums

Image: some of the 86 cavity-filled teeth found in a shop drain in the Roman Forum (1^st century AD)

Level 3: a retort; genitive of indefinite value

Venit ōlim quīdam ad Aristippum philosophum, eīque dīxit: "Vīsne fīlium meum artēs tuās docēre?" Respondit Aristippus, "Hoc equidem faciam acceptīs duōbus talentīs." Pater autem pretiō exterritus, dīxit, "At servum minōris emere possum." Contrā Aristippus, "Fac hoc: ita duōs servōs habēbis."

contrā: (here) in reply; note also the omission of any verb meaning “said” e.g. inquit

Expressing price / value:

[1] a specific cost or a noun that expresses a monetary equivalent is in the ablative case:

Agrum vēndidit sēstertium sex mīlibus. │ He sold the land for 6000 sesterces.

sānē [i] magnō pretiō, [ii] nummīs aureīs quadringentīs (Livy) │ of course [i] at a great price, [ii]  for four hundred gold coins

Antōnius rēgna addīxit pecūniā. │ Antony sold thrones for money.

Logōs rīdiculōs: quis cēnā poscit? │ Jokes: who wants them for the price of a dinner?

17.06.25: Level 3; summary of of the uses of the ablative case [16]: the ablative of price

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2025/03/170625-level-3-summary-of-of-uses-of_13.html

[2] From the text: At servum minōris [genitive] emere possum │ But I can buy a slave for less

[i] The term genitive of indefinite value can refer to (1) a non-specific monetary amount, or (2) the extent to which something is “valued” i.e. regarded

Compare:

(1) Cicero, referring to the monetary value of a property:

Vērum tamen ego illud, quamquam est bellum, minōris [genitive] aestimō, … │ But, though it is (a) pretty (property), I rate it at a lower value …

(2) Cicero, referring to the value of someone’s approval:

Per enim magnī [genitive] aestimō tibi firmitūdinem animī nostrī* et factum nostrum probārī │ For I attach very great weight to your approval of *my firmness of mind and my action. (*Cicero often uses “we” when referring to himself)

Two further examples where the reference can be to (1) an indefinite monetary value, or (2) the extent to which something is of importance or relevance:

(1) Quantī hoc ēmit? │ How much did he buy this for?

(2) Sed, tū id quantī aestimēs, tuum iūdicium est (Cicero) │ But how much you value that is your judgement. [i.e. But it is for you to decide what weight you should give to the matter.]

Further examples:

Magnī aestimō (Cicero) │ I consider (it) of great value

Permagnī nostrā* interest (Cicero)│ It is of the highest importance to *me

Illud parvī refert │ That matters little

Parvī refert mē │ It is of little use / value to me

Est mihi tantī │ It is worth it to me [it is of such value to me]

Verrēsne tibi tantī fuit? (Cicero) │ Was Verres really worth that much to you? [i.e. Did you value / regard him so highly?]

Plūris ea dūxit quam omnem pecūniam (Cicero) │ He regarded them of more worth than any money

[ii] Both the genitive and the ablative are being used in the following extract from Plautus:

Quantī [genitive] eam ēmit? vīlī [genitive] . . . quot minīs? [ablative i.e. reference to a specific price] Quadrāgintā minīs [ablative]. │ How much did he buy her for? Cheap. For how many minae? For forty minae.

[iii] Certain nouns can convey indefinite value:

(1) Catullus 5

as, assis [3/m]: a Roman coin that is of very low value e.g. Engl. penny, farthing etc.

However, Catullus is not referring literally to a cost, but to rumours that should be considered worthless.

Vīvāmus, mea Lesbia, atque amēmus, │ Let us live, my Lesbia, and let us love,

rūmōrēsque senum sevēriōrum │ And the rumours of rather stern old men

omnēs ūnius aestimēmus assis! │ Let us value them all at one penny!

(2) A similar use is with floccus, -ī [2/m]: [i] a lock (e.g. of hair) [ii] a trifle; something unimportant

floccī nōn faciō │ I don’t care; I don’t give a damn; I consider it worthless

nec tamen floccī faciō (Cicero) │ however, I don’t really care / I couldn’t give a straw

In Catullus 5, the poet’s declarations of love did not meet with the reply “Floccī nōn faciō” from his on-off girlfriend, Lesbia, but read more of his poems and you’ll know that was exactly what she thought!

____________________

Once upon a time a certain man came to Aristippus, the philosopher, and said to him: ‘Are you willing to teach my son your sciences?’ Aristippus replied, ‘I will do so on receiving two talents.’ But the father, terrified at the price, said, ‘Why, I can buy a slave for less.’ Aristippus (said) in reply, ‘Do so; thus you will have two slaves.

Level 3: indefinites [15] -cumque [ii] practice

Exercise: complete the Latin excerpts with the appropriate form of quīcumque etc; the answers are at the end of the post

[i] "The one (whomsoever) I kiss," he said, "He's the one; arrest him ..."│__________ ōsculātus fuerō ipse est tenēte eum … (Vulgate)

[ii] All who inhabit the earth will worship him (the beast) — whoever’s name [ = the name of whoever] has not been written in the Lamb’s book of life │ Et adōrābunt eum omnēs, quī inhabitant terram, __________ nōn est scrīptum nōmen in librō vītae Agnī (Vulgate)

[iii] To whomsoever of them you may give it, I shall have the honour │ __________ ex istīs dederīs, ego mūnus habēbō (Ovid)

[iv] Whoever are under the yoke as slaves …│ __________ sunt sub iugō servī … (Vulgate)

[v] Whatever (things) he has said to you about Caesar … │ Is __________ tibi dē Caesare dīxit (Cicero)

[vi] keep your promise to present yourself, wherever I am [ = we shall be], before the New Year. │ id quod mihi adfirmāstī, ut tē ante Kalendās Iānuāriās __________ erimus, sistās (Cicero)

[vii] Whatever [ = whatever kind] it be, you will know immediately. │ Quod __________ erit, continuō sciēs (Cicero)

[viii] Let’s manage somehow or other [by whatever means] │ __________ ratiōne contendāmus (Cicero)

[ix] Whenever [ = however often] I see your son (and I see him practically every day) … │ __________ fīlium tuum videō  (videō autem ferē cottīdiē) … (Cicero)

[x] Whatever you wish for, I desire it may befall you. │ __________ optēs, tibi velim contingere (Plautus)

[xi] In whatever way it is said, it can nevertheless be understood │ __________ dīcitur, intellegī tamen potest (Cicero)

cuicumque; cuiuscumque; quācumque; quaecumque; quālecumque; quemcumque; quīcumque; quodcumque; quōmodocumque; quotiēnscumque; ubicumque

[i] quemcumque ōsculātus fuerō ipse est tenēte eum …

[ii] … cuiuscumque nōn est scrīptum nōmen in librō vītae Agnī

[iii] cuicumque ex istīs dederīs, ego mūnus habēbō (Ovid)

[iv] Quīcumque sunt sub iugō servī …

[v] Is quaecumque tibi dē Caesare dīxit

[vi] id quod mihi adfirmāstī, ut tē ante Kalendās Iānuāriās ubicumque erimus, sistās

[vii] Quod quālecumque erit, continuō sciēs.

[viii] quācumque ratiōne contendāmus

[ix] Quotiēnscumque fīlium tuum videō  (videō autem ferē cottīdiē) …

[x] Quodcumque optēs, tibi velim contingere

[xi] quōmodocumque dīcitur, intellegī tamen potest

Level 3: indefinites [14] -cumque [i]

-cumque creates the equivalent of English -ever in the sense of whoever, whatever, whenever

quīcumque [m], quaecumque [f], quodcumque: whoever / whosoever; whatever / whatsoever

quāliscumque: of whatever type (kind, sort)

quandōcumque: whenever; at whatever time; as soon as 

quotiēnscumque: however often

ubicumque: wherever; in whatever place

quōcumque / quācumque: to wherever 

undecumque: from wherever

quōmodocumque: howsoever; in any way whatever

Examples:

Singular

nam pūblicae reī causā quīcumque id facit magis quam suī quaēstī … (Plautus) │ For whoever does this, more for the sake of the public than of his own benefit …

quaecumque fortūna eius fuerit (Cicero) │ whatever his fortune will be

quodcumque hominī accidit līberē (Plautus) │ whatever freely comes into a man’s head [ = whatever whim …]

Quid enim verēris quemcumque hērēdem fēcit (Cicero) │ Why should you fear whoever he has appointed his heir

Multī autem sunt, quī, quōcumque modō ad illōs sē recipere volent, recipientur (Cicero) │ But there are many who, in whatever way they wish to take themselves back to them, will be taken back

Ēripe mihi hunc dolōrem, aut minue saltem aut cōnsōlātiōne aut cōnsiliō, aut quācumque rē potes (Cicero)│ Take this grief away from me, or at any rate lessen it by your sympathy or advice or by whatever means you can. 

Plural and adverbs

Sed tamen, quīcumque sunt … (Cicero) │Still, whoever they are …

Dī tibi dent quaecumque optēs (Plautus) │ May the gods give you whatever (things) you pray for

sed hominēs benevolōs, quālēscumque sunt, grave est īnsequī contumēliā (Cicero) │ but it’s a serious thing to attack benevolent persons with insult whatever their character [i.e. whatever sort / kind they are]

Adverbs

Ubi eris? / Ubicumque libitum erit animō meō (Plautus) │ Where will you be? / Wherever it takes my fancy [ = it will have been pleasing to my mind]

Poteris ergō, undecumque coeperis ubicumque dēsierīs, quae deinceps sequentur … legere (Pliny the Younger) │ So, from wherever you begin and wherever you leave off, you will be able to read what follows next …

Quācumque iter fēcī … (Cicero) │ Wherever I went …

idque quandōcumque animadversum est, terrēre nōs potest (Celsus) │ and whenever this is observed, it can alarm us

quās quotiēnscumque cōnspiciō fleō (Plautus) │ Whenever (however often) I look at it, I weep

Level 3: The power of filial love

Croesō, Lȳdiae rēgī, fīlius erat, eximiā fōrmā et praestantī ingeniō; loquī autem nōn poterat. Omnī arte ūsī erant medicī, nihil tamen efficere potuērunt. Sardibus ā Cȳrō captīs, mīles quīdam strictō gladiō in Croesum irruēbat. Tum puer amōre commōtus, summā vī loquī cōnātus est. Tandem magnā vōce exclāmāvit: "Nōlī patrem meum Croesum interficere!"

[1] Croesō, Lȳdiae rēgī,  fīlius erat │ Croesus, the king of Lydea had a son; dative of possession; literally: to Croesus, the king of Lydia (there) was a son

[2] Omnī arte ¦ ūsī erant medicī │ the doctors had used every skill / contrivance

[i] ūtor, ūtī, ūsus sum [3/deponent]: use

ūtor: I use

ūsus sum: I (have) used

ūsus eram: I had used

[ii] the verb is followed by the ablative case: omnī arte ¦ ūsī erant medicī

____________________

Croesus, king of Lydea, had a son of remarkable beauty and excellent understanding; but he was unable to speak. The physicians had used every skill, yet were not able to effect anything. When Sardis was taken by Cyrus, a certain soldier rushed at Croesus with drawn sword. Then the boy, moved by love, tried with all his might to speak. At length he exclaimed in a loud voice, ‘Do not kill my father Croesus.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croesus

Level 3: Phocion

Phōciōn Athēniēnsis pauper erat. Ōlim centum talentīs ab Alexandrō, Macedonum rēge, missīs, dīxit: "Cūr mihi tantum pecūniae dare vīs? Respondit lēgātus: "Alexander tē ūnum omnium Athēniēnsium bonum virum exīstimat." Tum Phōciōn inquit: "Aufer pecūniam; bonus esse mālō."

[1] Centum talentīs … missīs │ with a hundred talents having been sent; ablative absolute

ab (1) Alexandrō, Macedonum (2) rēge │ by (1) Alexander, (2) the king of the Macedonians; nouns in apposition i.e. both nouns take the same case

[2] tantum pecūniae [genitive] │ literally: so much of money (Fr: tant d’argent)

____________________

Phocion the Athenian was a poor man. Once when a hundred talents had been sent to him by Alexander, king of the Macedonians, he said, ‘Why dost thou wish to give me so much money?’ The ambassador replied, ‘Alexander thinks you the only good man of all the Athenians.’ Then Phocion remarked, ‘Take away the money; I prefer to be good.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocion

Level 3: indefinites [13] quīdam [iii] practice

Exercise: complete the Latin excerpts with the appropriate form of quīdam; the answers are at the end of the post

[i] There was a (certain) man in Caesarea named Cornelius │ vir autem __________ erat in Caesareā nōmine Cornēlius

[ii] In Joppa there was a certain disciple [fem.] named Tabitha│ In Joppē autem fuit __________ discipula, nōmine Tabitha

[iii] they seized Simon, a certain Cyrenian, who was coming in from the country │ adprehendērunt Simōnem __________ Cȳrēnēnsem venientem dē vīllā

[iv] However, we must run aground on a certain island │ in īnsulam autem __________ oportet nōs dēvenīre

[v] a creditor (moneylender) had two debtors [= to a certain creditor were …] │ duo dēbitōrēs erant __________ fēnerātōrī

[vi] Now the slave of a certain centurion, who was valuable to him, was sick and about to die │ centuriōnis autem __________ servus male habēns erat moritūrus quī illī erat pretiōsus

[vii] And it came to pass, that, as he was in a certain place praying … │ et factum est cum esset in locō __________ ōrāns

[viii] There was a certain judge in one town who didn't fear God │ Iūdex __________ erat in __________ cīvitāte, quī Deum nōn timēbat

[ix] And certain (ones) of those standing there said to them: │ Et __________ dē illīc stantibus dīcēbant illīs:

[x] and taking unto them some wicked men of the vulgar sort │  adsūmentēsque dē vulgō virōs __________ malōs

[xi] They subvert the faith of some (people) │ subvertunt __________ fidem

[xii] (1) A certain woman loves (2) a certain (man) │ Amat mulier (1) __________ (2) __________

[xiii] Is this the chap who used to be brave [ = was brave at one time]? │  hicinest, quī fuit quondam fortis?

cuidam; cuiusdam; quādam; quaedam; quaedam; quandam; quendam; quendam; quīdam; quīdam; quīdam; quōdam; quondam; quōrundam; quōsdam

[i] vir autem quīdam erat in Caesareā nōmine Cornēlius

[ii] In Joppē autem fuit quaedam discipula, nōmine Tabitha

[iii] adprehendērunt Simōnem quendam Cȳrēnēnsem venientem dē vīllā

[iv] in īnsulam autem quandam oportet nōs dēvenīre

[v] duo dēbitōrēs erant cuidam fēnerātōrī

[vi] centuriōnis autem cuiusdam servus male habēns erat moritūrus quī illī erat pretiōsus

[vii] et factum est cum esset in locō quōdam ōrāns

[viii] Iūdex quīdam erat in quādam cīvitāte, quī Deum nōn timēbat

[ix] Et quīdam dē illīc stantibus dīcēbant illīs:

[x] adsūmentēsque dē vulgō virōs quōsdam malōs

[xi] subvertunt quōrundam fidem

[xii] Amat mulier (1) quaedam (2) quendam

[xiii] hicinest, quī fuit quondam fortis?

Level 3: indefinites [12] quīdam [ii] examples

The first four examples of quīdam are from the Mediaeval text Gesta Rōmānōrum, more of which we’ll look at later in the group. In that text, it is used frequently to introduce stories, and employed to keep names and places vague.

Examples: singular

Imperātrīx quaedam erat, in cuius imperiō erat quīdam mīles │ There was a certain empress in whose empire was a certain soldier

Perrēxit ad quendam philosophum │ He went to a certain philosopher [some philosopher i.e. it doesn’t matter which philosopher]

tibi habeō sēcrētum pandere quoddam │ I have a certain secret to reveal to you

Accidit quōdam diē, ut, cum fīlius piscātōris cum pilā quādam lūderet … │ It happened on a certain day, when the fisherman’s son was playing with a certain ball …

modo quandam vidi virginem hic viciniae miseram suam matrem lamentari mortuam (Terence)

Ac mihi repetenda est ¦ veteris cuiusdam memoriae ¦ … recordātiō (Cicero) │ And now I must bring back to mind the recollection ¦ of a certain old story (one translation gives this simply as “an old story”)

dedī mercātōrī cuidam, quī ad illum dēferat (Plautus) │ I gave (them) to a certain merchant who was to carry them to him

Examples: plural; the first two examples from [i] Comenius, and [ii] the Codex Buranus show that the translation can simply be expressed as a vague some (pupils / people)

[i] 18.11.24: Comenius; in a 17th century school [1]; text and translation

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/09/181124-comenius-in-17th-century-school.html

the Master │Praeceptor

sitteth in a Chair │ sedet in Cathedrā

the Scholars │ Discipulī

in Forms (on benches) │ In subsellīs

he teacheth, they learn│ Ille docet, hī discunt

some things (certain things) │ Quaedam

are writ(ten) before them │ Praescrībuntur illīs

with Chalk on a Table │ Crētā in tabellā

Some (certain ones) sit │ Quīdam sedent

at a Table, and write, │ ad Mēnsam, & scrībunt,

he mendeth their Faults, │ ipse corrigit Mendās,

Some stand and rehearse things │ Quīdam stant, & recitant

committed to memory, │ memoriae mandāta,

Some talk together, │ Quīdam cōnfābulantur,

and behave themselves wantonly │ ac gerunt sē petulantēs

and carelessly; │ & negligentēs

[ii] In tabernā quandō sumus (Codex Buranus: 13^th century); the song is certainly not going to name the drunks, the ‘indiscrete’ chaps, and the guys who lose the shirt off their backs in dice playing!

Quīdam lūdunt, quīdam bibunt, │ Some (certain ones) play, some drink

quīdam indiscrētē vīvunt. │ Some behave loosely

Sed in lūdō quī morantur, │ But those who / the ones who linger in the game [ = keep on gambling]

ex hīs quīdam dēnūdantur │ Some of them are stripped bare

quīdam ibi vestiuntur, │ Some are dressed (‘adorned’) [ = win their clothes] there

quīdam saccīs induuntur. │  Some are dressed in sacks

Ibi nūllus timet mortem │ There no-one fears death

sed prō Bacchō mittunt sortem │ but they throw the dice in the name of Bacchus

Plural examples (all from the Vulgate apart from [vi])

[i] trahēbant Jāsonem et quōsdam frātrēs ad prīncipēs cīvitātis │they dragged Jason and some (of the) brethren before the city council

[ii] ibi vīdimus mōnstra quaedam fīliōrum Enach │ There we saw certain monsters of the sons of Enac

[iii] Singular and plural in the same sentence; note how the King James version reflects the translation of quīdam:

Quaestiōnēs vērō quāsdam dē suā superstitiōne habēbant adversus eum, et dē quōdam Jēsū dēfūnctō, quem affirmābat Paulus vīvere. │ But they had certain questions against him concerning their own superstition and of one Jesus [i.e. a certain Jesus, somebody who they know about, but their knowledge is vague], who was dead and whom Paul affirmed to be alive.

[iv] quōrundam hominum peccāta manifēsta sunt │ Some people's sins are evident

[v] … ā quibusdam quia Iōhannēs surrēxit ā mortuīs ā quibusdam vērō quia Heliās appāruit │ … by (according to) some that John was risen from the dead: but by some (others), that Elias had appeared

[vi] Celsus:

Sūdor etiam duōbus modīs ēlicitur, aut siccō calōre aut balneō. Siccus calor est et harēnae calidae … et quārundam nātūrālium sūdātiōnum, ubi terrā profūsus calidus vapor aedificiō inclūditur. │ Sweating also is elicited in two ways, either by dry heat, or by the bath. The dry is the heat of hot sand… and of some natural sweating places, where hot vapour exhaling from the ground is confined within a building.

Level 3: indefinites [11] quīdam [i]

The -dam suffix, which is indeclinable, indicates “a certain”

As a reminder …

[i] Like the other indefinites, it can stand alone as a pronoun:

quīdam [m], quaedam [f], quiddam [n]: a certain (person); a certain (thing); there are certain people who think … i.e. it is not specific as to who or what it’s referring to

[ii] It can also function as an adjective with a slight difference in the neuter:

quīdam [m], quaedam [f], quoddam [n]: a certain king once said; in a certain kingdom there lived a certain soldier:

I have given the declension of both [i] and [ii] in the same image; this is for reference only and, apart from the neuter singular nominative and accusative there is no difference between them. Note, however, the use of /n/ in the accusatives and the genitive plurals; as long as you can recognise that “dam” ending, then you’ll be fine!

What’s the difference between [1] quīdam and [2] aliquis (discussed in the previous posts)?

[1] Et dīcit Jēsus: Tetigit mē aliquis (Vulgate) │ And Jesus says: somebody touched me

English can make a similar distinction although it isn’t consistent in translation: somebody touched Jesus, but Jesus has no idea who it was

[2] habitant hīc quaedam mulierēs pauperculae (Terence) │ certain poor women live here

The speaker knows / is aware of a certain group of women but provides no further details.

At times, quīdam has little more ‘force’ than the English indefinite article a/an as in the following two examples:

“There lived a king, as I’ve been told, in the wonder-working days of old” (W.S. Gilbert)

There was a soldier, a Scottish soldier, / Who wandered far away / And soldiered far away (Stewart)

If those lyrics were in Latin, quīdam would convey the idea: quīdam rēx │ a (certain) king; quīdam mīles │ a (certain) soldier i.e. they are not referring to ‘some king / soldier or other’, but to specific ones in the speaker’s minds but with no names.

[1] aliquī philosophī ita putant │ some philosophers think so [but I have no idea who they are]

[2] quīdam philosophī ita putant │ certain philosophers think so [and I have certain ones in mind but no further information about them is being given]

Look out for: quondam; from quom (older spelling of cum: when) > quon + dam: at one time; formerly; once (in the past); at times; some day (in the future)

Examples and practice in the next posts

LINKS

26.07.24: Level 2; Dē crocodīlō [1]

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/06/260724-level-2-de-crocodilo-1.html

30.11.24: Comenius; in a 17th century school [5]; quīdam

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/09/301124-comenius-in-17th-century-school_29.html

Level 3: the best fortifications

A very short anecdote to introduce the word in bold:

Quīdam ōlim Spartānō dīxit: "Cūr moenia nōn habet Sparta?" Contrā Spartānus inquit:
"Nē mentītus sīs, optime; moenia praestantissima, incolārum scīlicet virtūtem, urbs nostra habet."

scīlicet: (various meanings) of course; naturally; namely

[1] quīdam: a certain; see the next three Level 3 posts

[2] nē … sis: present subjunctive of esse and used here in a negative command i.e. ‘do not be …’ [ = may you not be]

[3] mentītus, -a, -um: deceived < mentior, -īrī, -ītus sum [4/deponent]: lie

[4] optime: vocative case; (here) my very good (friend)

[5] praestō, -āre, -stāvī / -stitī, praestātus / praestitus [1]: be outstanding; excel > praestāns, praestantis: outstanding

____________________

Some one [= a certain (person)] once said to a Spartan, ‘Why does Sparta not have walls?’ In reply, the Spartan said, ‘Do not be deceived, my good friend; our city has outstanding walls, namely the courage of its inhabitants.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

Antique map of classical city of Sparta (based on ancient sources and not archaeology)

The theatre of ancient Sparta with Mt. Taygetus in the background

By Κούμαρης Νικόλαος, Attribution, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=7035971

Medieval depiction of Sparta from the Nuremberg Chronicle (1493); note the title LACEDEMONIA

Level 3: indefinites [10]: quis / quid; sī / nisi / num / nē … quis / quid

quis / quid: their most common use – by far – is to ask the questions who and what? However, they can act as indefinites i.e. any, anybody, anything, but their use is rare and generally restricted to the following constructions:

[i] with sī (if)

Sī quis venit, dīc mihi statim │ If anybody comes, tell me immediately

Puerum reddat, sī quis eum petat (Plautus) │ Let her give up the child if anybody asks for him

In praise of cabbage (Cato):

Hanc oportet māne ieiūnum esse. Īnsomnis vel sī quis est seniōsus* hāc eādem cūrātiōne sānum faciēs │ If anyone is sleepless or rather elderly, you can make well by this same treatment

*seniōsus: only attested here

Et sī quis ulcus … habēbit, hanc brassicam errāticam aquā spargitō, oppōnitō; sānum faciēs │ If someone has an ulcer … sprinkle this wild cabbage with water and apply it; you will cure him.

Sī quem pūrgāre volēs, prīdiē nē cēnet … │ If you want to cleanse anybody, he (i.e. the patient) should not dine the previous day

Sī quid anteā malī [genitive] intus erit, omnia sāna faciet │ If anything previously bad is inside, it will make everything healthy

Posteā māne bibat sūcum dēambuletque hōrās IIII, agat, negōtī [genitive] sī quid habēbit │ Early the next morning he should drink the juice and walk about for four hours, (and) if he has any business, he should attend to it

[ii] with nisi (unless; if … not)

nisi quis renātus fuerit ex aquā et Spīritū nōn potest introīre in rēgnum Deī (Vulgate) │ Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God [ = If somebody is not born …

nisi quis nōs deus respexerit (Cicero) │ unless some god shows regard for us

ego eō ad forum nisi quid vīs (Plautus) │ I’m going to the forum, unless you want anything [ = if you don’t want anything]

Ego, nisi quid mē vīs, eō lavātum (Plautus) │ Unless you want me for anything, I’m going to take a bath

Nunc quidem, nisi quid tē tenuit, suspicor tē esse in suburbānō (Cicero) │ Now I suppose you are in your suburban estate, unless anything kept you.

[iii] with num

num: surely … not i.e. expecting a negative answer

num + quis = surely not anybody = surely nobody

Num quis negat? (Cicero) │ Does anybody deny it? [ = Surely not anybody denies it / surely nobody denies it]

Num quis Pīsōnī est adsēnsus? (Cicero) │ Did anybody agree with Piso? [i.e. it isn’t *Who agreed?*, but did anybody agree]

In this example you can see that Cicero expects a negative reply by answering the question himself:

Num quem tribūnum plēbis servī M. Tullī pulsāvērunt? nōn opīnor │ Surely the slaves of Marcus Tulius had not assaulted any tribune of the people, had they? I think not.

Num quid vīs? (Plautus) │ Is there anything you want? [literally: Surely, you don’t want anything? = You don’t want anything, do you? i.e. it isn’t *What do you want?*]

[iv] with nē

We look at this use gain in a later, and far broader topic which goes way beyond what is discussed here, but it’s included in this section for reference and for the sake of completeness without going into detail about the grammar that is connected to it:

nē … quis / quid: literally = lest anyone / anything = so that nobody / nothing

It occurs in sentences which convey the idea of

This construction is followed by the subjunctive and so, for now, simply recognise the meaning of nē … quis / quid:

Nē quis sē commovēre audēret, quantum terrōris iniēcit! (Cicero) │ Lest anybody [ = so that nobody] would dare to stir, what an amount of terror he struck into them!

vidēte nē quis vōs dēcipiat per philosophiam et inānem fallāciam (Vulgate) │ See to it (so) that nobody may deceive you through philosophy and empty deceit

Vidēte nē quis vōs sēdūcat (Vulgate) │ Take heed lest any man should deceive you [ = so that no man]

et praecēpit eīs ¦ nē quid tollerent in viā (Vulgate) │ And he commanded them ¦ to take nothing on the journey … [literally: so that they would not take anything]

Image: the clock of Wells Cathedral with the inscription …

NĒ QUID PEREAT: lest anything perish = so that nothing perishes

bona eōrum, nē quid ex contāgiōne noxae remanēret penes* nōs, Rōmam portāvimus (Livy) │ Their goods, so that nothing from the contagion of the crime might remain with us / in our possession, we brought to Rome.

*penes (preposition + accusative) [i] under the command of [ii] (here) in the possession of

Both constructions discussed in this post in the same sentence:

Exsolvāmus religiōne populum, sī quā obligāvimus, nē quid dīvīnī [genitive] hūmānīve [genitive] obstet. (Livy) │ Let us release the people from religious obligation, if in any way we have bound them, so that nothing [ = not anything] divine or human may stand in the way.